According to Natomasbuzz.com, rumor has it Goodwill Industries will be moving into the large retail space abandoned by cash-strapped Borders Books (in the Park Place strip mall in North Natomas–the picture at left depicts one opening in Wyoming). From the comments I have read, it appears as though at least some North Natomas residents don’t like the idea; in fact some are already suggesting a petition to stop Goodwill from moving in.
Personally, while I continue to be very disappointed with the direction the City of Sacramento chose to take “New Sacramento” (namely the influx of low income housing they rubber-stamped–housing that should have been dispersed throughout the city, rather than concentrated in a single area), this development should come as no surprise to North Natomas residents, and furthermore I opine they might consider celebrating the idea, rather than decrying it.
First, North-North Natomas is replete with low income individuals and families. There are thousands. As it stands, aside from a Marshall’s, these folks have essentially nowhere to shop–unless they have transportation to get them over the I-80 freeway to One Dollar Land. In fact, the only grocery stores nearby are Raley’s, Safeway, Longs and Rite Aid, and even middle class families are struggling right now to afford their inflated prices. In my opinion the City of Sacramento created a situation RIPE for crime by adding thousands of low income housing units, but only middle class shopping outlets to support them. Sure, there is a Wal Mart and Target a few miles down the road, but many low income folks don’t even have cars.
Second, Goodwill is more than just a thrift store. Check out this article on Adventure Mom’s web site for a full run down of what they are and the services they bring to communities. From Adventure Mom’s site regarding Goodwill locations in Wyoming: “We have over 30 programs to help people from every circumstance imaginable. Some of the programs include a certified nurses training program targeted to at risk youth, a prisoner reentry program, a hospitality and catering program, manufacturing opportunities and on top of that we have 500 of our own employees.” Seems to me low-income-friendly North Natomas needs all the help it can get, and we should be applauding Goodwill, not shaking sticks at them.
Third, Goodwill will bring many jobs for those who need them the absolute most. I see this as another blessing in disguise. North Natomas is now full of young people from low income homes with nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nowhere to work unless they want to hoof it up the road to I-80. Hopefully Goodwill will employ a whole bunch of them and give them the much needed income they need to support their families.
Fourth. Goodwill is one of the most significant recyclers in most major cities. Got stuff you don’t want? You now have a place to put it–with a tax incentive to boot.
Again, in my opinion the City of Sacramento BLEW IT with North Natomas by saddling it with high concentrations of low income housing that SHOULD HAVE been dispersed throughout the city–especially in the absence of a properly-staffed police force, adequate social and youth services, and retail outlets geared towards low income families. To be sure, I believe the city made unacceptable, irresponsible, and reckless decisions about North Natomas, and I hold them directly accountable for the exorbitant number of robberies and burglaries that have taken place here in the past several years–not to mention the many many issues with youth.
BUT, at the end of the day, what’s done is done; the demographic is what it is; and no amount of protest or petition is going to make life more livable for the socio-economically diverse people living in North Natomas. Like it or not, property values be damned, this area NEEDS stores like Goodwill desperately. Some residents are saying a Goodwill will only increase crime rates in the area. Maybe. But I say it’s quite possible more stores like Goodwill will actually reduce crime.
Anyways, I find it difficult to be cynical about a little bit of Goodwill. I say bring it on.
source: http://adventuremom.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/goodwill-stores/
Great attitude Joe. I agree with all your points and support Goodwill all the way!
I agree with you Joe. It’s better to have a business than no business. Goodwill stores are clean, organized, and they help everybody. Not just low income people shop at these stores. Everyone can benefit from having a thrift-type store in their community. I live in East Sac and I visit several local thrift shops regularly and I drive quite a distance to go to Thrift Town on Stockton Blvd. When you’ve got kids who grow really fast, it’s nice to be able to by clothes that are slightly used than to buy expensive new ones when they’ll just outgrow them in a couple of months. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
Thank god you did a story other than KJ. Too bad you are a backer of this new store. You are probably correct however in that due to the high numbers of low income residents, a store like this is required, but can’t it be located in the industrial park on N. Market. Why do the standards keep getting lower in the name of equality, one blogger on the buzz said what is next, a bail bond or check cashing store. I also think most low income folks have cars too or maybe they can litter our streets with shopping carts. The store may have adverse impacts on Park Place, so before it gets too sleazy, why not protect something worthwhile. This will not help property values and crime is certain to be more present.
How ‘ bout them apples? A goodwill store is better then a vacant site. It will probably do well in this economy and bring new jobs.
Goodwill is not “sleazy” geez
Also: thanks, Susie
Hmmm, let’s see…has anyone looked at the bus service in North Natomas lately? Didn’t think so. Two (barely) routes – one running only on weekdays. I have a car (and a nice one). I have food on my table, a job, great kids, and can buy them new clothes AND shop at Safeway. It doesn’t get any better than that. Who am I to believe that having a Goodwill (where I bought many clothes when my family was young and our income was much lower) is going to bring rents down. Where were all of you people when those businesses that have failed here needed your cash?
If I wanted to live near a Goodwill store I would have bought a home off Norwood.
I chose to buy and live in a area far away from stores like this. I do not want it here.
I think the frustration your hearing from people stems from the fact that this is one more in a string of lies and letdowns that we’ve had to endure in the past 8 to 10 years. A lot of us plunked down hard-earned money to buy homes, plant roots and raise families in a vibrant, successful and liveable community; since then we’ve been lied to by our city fathers and school board and had to watch as developers turned the Natomas Community Plan into a doormat and installed one bad idea after another onto the landscape. Toss in a pinch of bad luck with the housing downturn (with a little help from the overzealous developers and city council — inordinate supply = inordinate price drop, DUH!), the mortgage fiasco and the subsequent economy circling-of-the-drain, and you have where we’re at today. Now this.
I can’t help but ask, is Goodwill really the best we can do? Yes, it’ll be great for our less advantaged neighbors, but exactly how far are we going to let standards slip in the area before the tax base takes off for greener pastures and essentially turns all of Natomas into low income housing? I hate asking that because i know it sounds snobby, but as someone who’s invested himself emotionally, financially and otherwise in this area, it still needs to be asked.
Goodwill is a great place to shop during hard trouble times like now. Good honest hard working people shop there to save money. Crimes are everywhere. They happen everywhere nowadays in nice decent places and poor places. It’s silly to assume that crimes will increase by opening a thrift store. Don’t hate:) Such a store is what the area desperately need to bring in business and to boost property value.
Yes, low income should be spread all over, including next to the Fab 40s. Segregation of poor, old, young or any other type of folks is nuts and makes for something that is not a city but something similar to the suburban nightmare surrounding Sacramento. A healthy vibrant society welcomes all types of people and as is evident in the City or LA makes for a vibrant scene. Goodwill Stores are actually a step UP from Walmart and should be welcomed into the community.
What you have in Sacramento is a real first class MESS, with an entrenched bureaucracy and ossified redevelopment agencies that are a real hindrance to actually accomplishing anything. The election featured two persons running for a rather meaningless post of Mayor that featured a feeble aged incoherent inactive life long bureaucrat against an athletic mover and shaker who likes to shower with naked girls, and who can blame him, who generally runs things by the seat of his pants. The seat of the pants guy wants to audit Sac and understand just where all the bureaucrats and ossified redevelopment agencies have squandered your money…but the entrenched nim-wits on the Council would rather fund fly by night garbage burning deals or deals spending money for scam high-rise schemes or giving it outright for expensive restaurants and the Magoofs.
Totally!
Agreed!
Ricky, I agree with the implication that homeowners in North Natomas were DUPED by the city of Sacramento. No argument from me whatsoever. But it is what it is now. We are inundated with low income neighbors, and I believe we better face that reality now instead of continuing to sweep it under the rug (or down the road to Norwood) like the city has.
Is it the best we can do? Depends on who’s asking the question. From the strict homeowners perspective (mine included), we could say no, it’s not the best we can do, how about a nice restaurant like Fuddruckers!? The problem with this question is it ignores the fact that North Natomas is replete with low income people now, and like it or not, they need more places to shop. Perhaps the question North Natomas homeowners should be asking is: Is North Natomas (and the sorry #@$ city of Sacramento in general) the best I can do for my family?
IMO the only way for North Natomas to thrive would be to SPREAD THE LOW INCOME HOUSING OUT across the city. How is it that all these other neighborhoods like Fab 40’s don’t have to share the love? Why does North Natomas have to shoulder the load–especially with no social services and a skeleton police staff?
I would like to see a traffic impact study done. Goodwill will no doubt increase the traffic in our neighborhood. I can’t imagine that the donations pouring in will amount to the same traffic as one Borders delivery truck. North Bend was not designed to be a retail route. If people start driving in and out that way, the entire neighborhood (including the elementary school) will be impacted. The increased traffic on Natomas Blvd will also be difficult, considering before and after the high school days are already a nightmare.
Goodwill is not the best we can do. It’s better than the Dollar Store idea. But I’m very concerned how a change will impact the other tenants in the center. Adding one Goodwill and losing 5 locally owned businesses as a result, is a major problem. I don’t think we could stand to lose Jacks, Dinner My Way, Strings, Mathnasium, Big Spoon etc. in that center because people are either afraid (rightfully or not) to shop there, or because the new clientele attracted doesn’t have the cash. Sorry- few will convince me that folks will go to Goodwill after work, do a little shopping and then drop $40 at Strings for dinner very often. Highly unlikely the same clients buy fancy shoes from the Shoes N Feet, get frozen dinners or for a week at Dinner My Way. One retailer can change the entire dynamic of a center.
Joe Wrote:
Or even better, from this point forward, what do we want North Natomas to BE? Or has that train left the station completely? I understand we now have a sizable low income population that needs someplace to shop (like Wal-Mart, Marshall’s and Ross), and I know that the economy’s in the tank, so people need something affordable NOW. The economy, however, WILL turn around (if it won’t, then whether or not we have any store nearby is a moot point). My concern (if you’ll pardon the metaphor) is that when things improve there will be no inherent tide to raise the boats. In other words, if we in our current state of economic panic festoon North Natomas with thrift and dollar stores because it’s all that’s currently viable, nothing’s really going to change when the economy improves. Do we go for the short-term fix, or do we tough it out for longer-term prosperity? I’m inclined to lean towards the latter.
I freely admit that I speak out of selfish reasons. While I want nothing more than for people to be able to shop within their means (and believe me if things keep going the way they are, I might just be lined up at Goodwill soon) I also want the downward spiral of my community (and my property values) to stop. I just don’t think that putting the Goodwill at that particular location (especially now) is a good idea.
As someone who was raised wearing second hand clothing and thrift store bargins I am upset that Goodwill is being considered for the Borders location.When I selected my home I specifically chose a neighborhood that did not have a thrift store, check cashing place, and bargin cigarette store. I read one blog where somebody suggested the Linens N Things building near Target. The parking is better, there will be more shoppers passing by, and the proximity to public transit is a plus. It may sound pretencious but having lived in a lower class home shopping at thrift stores like Goodwill always seemed to attract a rather scary clientele. I have read some posts that mention the other Goodwill stores in the area. Has anyone from North Natomas been to one. Out of curiosity I will go out of my way this weekend to get a first hand experience of at least three, maybe five, Goodwills in Sacramento to see for myself if they are any different than the heaps of other peoples junk that I remember.
Thanks, Joe, for a refreshing take on the potential opening of a Goodwill store in North Natomas. So many other parts of Sacramento have giant retail spaces that have remained unoccupied for years now, and this kind of blight is really a problem. Something IS better than nothing in some cases and in this current economy. And I, too, find it difficult to have bad feelings towards Goodwill.
Thank you IK for adding sensible thought to this matter,(I think it is common sense, not selfish as you claim). The problem is that the economic turmoil we face will outweigh long term better planning. Ray T and the rest of the clowns downtown have every intention to decrease our property values and quality of life. Areas like Natomas and Elk Grove grew fast and they will be the first to face problems and blight. I guess the lesson learned is, don’t move into an area that’s new, as the expectations of better quality will not become a reality. I heard that one of the main reasons Borders closed was from theft from the HS kids from Inderkum, can anybody confirm that.
I say the latter because–again–the low income housing is here to stay, ISN’T IT? I doubt anything short of a lawsuit (which would be sacreligious in the eyes of many, and many–incl myself–would have nothing to do with it), is going to change that.
Withstanding the above, the question “What do we want North Natomas to BE” doesn’t make sense to me because North Natomas already IS. Most of the big decisions have already been made, haven’t they? The question is further complicated by the use of the word WE. Who is WE anyways? The homeowners? The business people? If yes, so what? What about all the renters? Don’t they get a say?
I have said all along the city blew it with North Natomas from the beginning. It is the most unfriendly bike and pedestrian place in all of Sac. The layout is terrible. There’s nothing for families to do. It was clearly designed by greedy developers who quite simply did not give a $#%@ about the quality of life here. The ONLY reason it hasn’t degraded further is because of all the volunteer residents who form all these watchdog groups out of necessity because the city can not support the Frankenstein it made.
Grrr. See, now you got me off my positive tip and complaining again
Way to go Joe! You are JOE SACRAMENTO and you have represented the average Joe well here! Thank you for siding with the less fortunate. You are my hero! Muy bueno!!!!! -Your pal Fernando
Joe we decided to move last month so at this point we don’t care. They could put a Wart Mart super center where the huge park was supposed to be for all I care. I can’t believe I was stupid enough to fall for the city’s lies. Oh well onto greener pastures
There are a number of stores in the Greater Sacramento area: http://www.goodwillsacto.org/stores
Joe Mendez, who is the president of Goodwill here in this area, was brought down here from Seattle area because the model of the Seattle stores was so good. Clean, efficient, and successful. As I have observed over the years, he has obviously made serious inroads to making these locations more palatable to the average resident in the neighborhoods they are in.
Plus, this institution provides a VALUABLE service to those in our community who need job training (like my mentally challenged daughter might well need) can go to earn a living and help keep them off the dole.
I wonder if anyone who is commenting here is involved in a community group who would assist the landlords of these empty spaces recruit the kinds of businesses you’d like to see in those spaces. Then support it regularly so it too doesn’t fold. Or to have Joe Mendez and CB Richard Ellis meet with community leaders and discuss the plans?
Borders was a perfectly good store to have there – but they weren’t making any money-not enough residents shopped there. Trader Joes has said they have no plans to expand here – that would be a great option in a perfect world.
Joe – When’s Kevin J. planning on having another community forum in Natomas – or does that stop now he’s in office?
Lori said: Joe – When’s Kevin J. planning on having another community forum in Natomas – or does that stop now he’s in office?
Great question. There are multiple people who read this site regularly who I’m sure could answer that question; too bad they don’t participate. I’ll see what I can found out.
Thanks, Lori
I guess someone needs to ask: does anyone know what it is like to actually be poor? I remember always being a bit embarassed at having to shop at the goodwill. It looked bad, the clothes were too old, and it looked like exactly what it was: leftovers! Once my parents got even a tiny bit more wealthy; we never went back.
Now while I am grateful for this, I’ve learned something that spending several years teaching in the poorest areas of Oakland and Hayward: most poor people don’t want to shop at Goodwill because it reminds them too much of their poverty!!! People go out of their way to wear name brands so as not to appear poor, but in reality, they really should not be buying the clothes they are wearing. One must distinguish between “poor” and “downtrodden”, and in my personal experience both as a urban public-school teacher and former “Goodwill” benefactor, “downtrodden” people shop at the Goodwill and not “poor” people.
Again, coming from a kid whose mom shopped at the Northgate Goodwill, I tell you that you will mainly have moms with their young kids shopping and that will be most of the daily traffic. This in-and-of itself is not bad, but it leads to a slow degeneration of the shopping area because the customers are always stagnant. Goodwill will bring nothing new to a shopping center and will not creat the type of “buzz” and “flash” that modern middle-class Natomas residents want to shop and be around. Do you notice how no one likes to walk into a restaurant that is empty? Same idea here…
I think Natomas residents are great people and want both a great, family neighborhood as well as a solid return on their life-long investment. That does not make one snobby or whiny. The past few years should teach all North Natomas residents that it is up to them to have the neighborhood they want. If we don’t want a Goodwill, then we have to do something about it ourselves!
Keep up the great work Joe!
I disagree with Armando. We shopped at Goodwill when I was growing up and I was never embarassed. My mother bought clothes, books, records, and all kinds of household items for the whole family and it saved us a lot of money. Not to mention the fact that today’s Goodwills are very different than the old versions and you should take a trip up to the one in Roseville if you don’t believe me.
I really feel it is snobbish and whiny to not want a store that will definitely benefit a whole segment of people in N Natomas and on top of that I think anyone who really thinks North Natomas is going to be some cool glitzy upscale area is a fool. Joe is right N Natomas is what it is and don’t shoot the messenger but it is not and it will never be what people think it should be because the city decided what it was going to be a long time ago
Armando mi amigo–yes I know what it’s like to be poor brother. And this once poor man welcomes Goodwill to my half poor community. Smile
Fernando
Lauren-
What about when 5 other stores close because the Goodwill chases out their normal business? What about the traffic changes? What about the idea that Goodwill is NOT neighborhood commercial as the original city plan stated for that area? What about the
Could someone please tell me why it’s whiny to want what you were promised? Would you keep a job for half the salary you were originally given?
Would you buy a house that was in a flood plain when you were promised the levees were strong, the neighborhood was well designed, the schools were great and the retail will be just what your family needs? Oh wait… I did that. And I got a badly designed neighborhood, a scam-ridden school district and a house that could flood tomorrow.
OF COURSE it’s SNOBBISH! I don’t want to live next to Loaves and Fishes, Goodwill, a church that serves free lunch or the Sac Food Bank. I spend hours a week volunteering at the Food Bank and there are many wonderful people I meet on a weekly basis who are just trying to get by. That doesn’t mean I have to change my life… I only have to help them change theirs.
Oh I get it…. everyone wants more prisons… but not in their neighborhood. That mindset is as old as dirt… and not much more interesting.
Lauren-
You still didn’t answer my questions.
For the record, I don’t want more prisons either. I live on a street with a very nice rehab group home that is doing just fine. Never complained about them once because they keep track of their people, mow their lawn and are good neighbors.
I lived in a wonderful mixed use residential neighborhood in Portland for 4 years before moving back to Sacramento (where I was born and raised.) We had a 60/20/20 split with housing, low income housing, and ultralow income housing. Difference- I knew what I was getting and I chose to live there.
I’m not a NIMBY kind of gal. But there are things I object to. Changing the entire plan while my property value plummets is not good city planning, good for business or good for anyone.
I hear you loud and clear, Sac Blog. I do. You know I share the same sentiments. I guess the difference is that I happen to think it might be too late for those promises to be delivered. To compound matters (and I have said this all along), despite the litany of SEVERE issues that plague this community (several of which you touched on), amazingly residents continue to ‘Celebrate Natomas,’ and trumpet how lovely the area is every chance they get. Yeah let’s get the city’s attention by telling them how wonderful the area is. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever.
Personally, when it comes to solving problems of this magnitude, I happen to side with Jim Knapp; that is, I believe the only way things could possibly even START to be reversed is with lawsuits. And you know what happened when Jim suggested lawsuits to the people in the community who claim to be its leaders? They 86′d him and told him he doesn’t live in North Natomas so it’s none of his business.
So at this point I am resigned to the fact that North Natomas is NOT the community I was led to believe it was going to be, and I’m going to continue to support anything and everything that will assist the DROVES of people here who are inclined to rob and burglarize. It’s the least I can do as a concerned citizen.
What does everyone think about a Dollar Store in that location instead? Have you seen the homeless people roaming around in North Natomas lately? They always find the places where there aren’t a lot of cops, don’t they?
Seriously, we better hope and pray these centers get tenants. We’re far better off with a Goodwill than ANOTHER empty retail space. This place is getting to be a ghost town.
Joe-
I hear ya… I’m just not ready to throw in the towel yet. Plus at the rate it’s going, I can’t even rent my house out… and I can’t sell it. So we’re putting in an alarm system…
SB, we are in the same boat–in fact I think we actually live in the same neighborhood, btw
Was it the group home that gave it away?
I know another empty retail spot will be terrible. But I am seriously concerned how it will affect those that are still afloat. I really don’t want to lose the smaller guys just because the landlord wanted to fill a bigger spot. There’s got to be a better answer.
1. In EACH of the years, 1972, 1973, 1974, hydrologists, weather guys, civil engineers, scientists, Corp of Engineers used to come to Tulane and put on a presentation documenting the FACT that a hurricane moving in a certain direction, with tides at a certain time, with the river running at a certain level, would CERTAINLY collapse the levee system at both the Industrial Canal and at Lake Ponchartrain. These folks had charts, plans, diagrams, and calculation to back up their claims. It was all rather dry, but interesting. It took 33 years, but what was forecast came to pass.
2. Although Louisiana is a noted state ripe with corruption Sacramento suffers from the same conditions, only in a more silently corrupt manner. Slab on Grade housing has been allowed to be built in rice paddies and swampland with inadequate levees and even today the airport is being expanded in a basic swamp.
3. One can only assume the City and others have been warned, much as in the New Orleans of over 30 years ago.
Because of incompetence, greed, neglect and a sense of “it can’t happen here” one of the World’s great centers of Art and Culture has basically ceased to exist (the economic capital of the South has been in decline since the Civil War eclipsed by Houston and Atlanta).
It seems that Sacramento has been warned, and rest assured it will happen, whether next year or in 50 years. It is the basic reason most older, distinguished homes in Sacramento are built 6 feet above grade.
If one lives in one of those flood prone areas you might as well play the crap tables at Harrah’s.
1. The empty Linens and Things next to Target
2. The empty retail spaces across the street from Safeway on del Paso Rd.
3. the empty retail space next to the Food Max on Northgate
4. A bit further down, next to the old K Mart on Northgate (ie Big Lots)
5. Some of the empty retail space on Del Paso Rd. across from that big field next to Charter.
6. Some of the empty retail space along Gateway Oaks by the Coke distribution center
All of these places would be plenty of room for a Goodwill store and distrubution center while serving the needs of any family that needs them. If you think about it, other than the families that live in the immediate apartment complexes within that block radius, most people will have to drive past Wal Mart and Target to get to the Goodwill if it ends up in North Natomas. I fail to see how this current proposed location is more accessible to lower-income families.
I’ve lived in Natomas a long time, and no, the world won’t end if Goodwill goes there (flood or not…which by the way, everyone barring those living in El Dorado Hills will be impacted). But a community has a right to give its input and take a collective stand on what happens in it; this includes crime, property management, and retail. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion so let those who support it shop there and enjoy it. Consequently, let those who oppose it fight it and use their legal rights to block its entry.
I am sad to see that the city of Sacramento is so narrow minded, I am a transplant from San Diego and my opinion of Sacramento was already pretty low…(Yes this town is GHETTO!!!) I drove through Natomas while house hunting and found that there are plenty of neighborhoods there that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. So step down off your soapboxes people, I’ve lived my entire life around people who have a right to be snobby, not a bunch of wannabes who think way to much of them selves. We are a country of over privileged children with nothing better to do but look down our noses at the people we think are beneath us. For god sakes it’s GOODWILL, not a strip club!
Goodwill??? YOu have to be kidding me. I get it sac dooped us and put a bunch of crappy low income houses here and a horrible school district and a bunch of hoodlums took up residence. But Goodwill give me a break! Are we going to throw in the towel and just say”might as well just give in this is what they wanted it to be” NO WAY!!!! KJ you said you would bring business to sacramento HELP NATOMAS!!! How about a tuesday morning ,(housewares and such at a discount) Nordstrom rack, TJ Maxx, Gosh what about renting it out to a church? All the churches in natomas have to meet in schools. Think of all the poepl eafter church that would frequent the restaurants and stores there. There are responsible ideas out there and good will is not a good option. I have been to the goodwills in the sac area and they are not a place I will bring my kids to because of some of the customers and people who work there are shady but there is one that you can buy designer jeans at for less than 20.00 (I will not tell you my secret but I can tell you Natomas would not drop off that kind of stuff )
Lots of good points here. Thanks for contributing. Rachel, I agree a church would be great there, or some type of other community meeting place. You are right on all points. But until people in this community FACE THE MUSIC and get serious with the City of Sacramento, I’m afraid all these of protestant whimpers are in vain..
The truth is, poor people shop at Goodwill (whether they be white or nigga). And, as a Natomas home owner (NOT renter), I do not like the idea of having a “po’ people” store in my neighborhood. Here’s my rationale:
Let’s say someday, I want to sell my home and make a nice profit. That’s already going to be tough enough, thanks to the mortgage crooks who busted the housing market by lending to people who couldn’t afford to buy a home. Now, when I put my home up for sale, potential buyers will drive past the Goodwill Store (and not to mention all the low income apartments) and say, “Honey, maybe we should look in Roseville.”
The few of us responsible homeowners here in Natomas now feel duped by the home builders who lied to us and told us how “nice” Natomas was going to be. Can you imagine if six years ago my real estate agent had said, “Mr. & Mrs. Nelson, you definitely want to buy this home today. After all, prices are going to drop dramatically in a few years, we’ll be putting low income apartments on every corner, and a Goodwill Store will pop up in a prestigious location….sign here please.” Do you think the responsible home buyers would have bought here? Hell NO!
All the renters in the area are obviously very excited about the Goodwill, because that means more of their Section 8 check can be spent on Plasma TVs, DirectTV packages, and expensive cell phones that they really can’t afford. But at least the niggas will LOOK rich.
Hi Joe. I’m actually quite pleased it would be a Goodwill. I was almost positive they would put a 99 cent store or one of those clothing stores that sell gold teeth. We should be thrilled it will be Goodwill. I will bet you anything the dollar stores are coming.
Yo Joe what it do. Good article man. You are the Randy Jackson of Sac.. always keepin it real. Respect!
Can’t believe all the crazy comments here. Folks act like they puttin a Popeye’s Chicken up in there.
Heritage Park you cool and all but you’re killin me with the gold teeth thing. You know a brutha got to get his bling on !
Damned if you and damned if you don’t! You want to put a church in there Rachel! Are you out of your gords? A church? Where people would congregate and worship GOD? In room other than that afforded by a movie theatre or a beat up office space or high school gymnasiam? in Natomas? Are you insane! Your neighbors want Tarder Joes not churches! Ha! Wow are you out of touch!
I am really disheartened by all this PC crap! I am not afraid to tell the truth about how I feel about the whole forced “inclusionary” project that Natomas has become. I feel betrayed at the least and financially harmed. I bought in Natomas because it was presented to me as a fabulous Master Planned community that would have great amenities and an easy commute to downtown. What is has become is a dumping ground for Sacramento’s poor. Needless to say, huge problems with crime have followed. I have seen my property values drop faster and further than ANY other part of Sacramento county. No one will ever convince me that the “inclusionary housing” and crime were not a huge part of this equation. That being said, while I don’t mind shopping at a thrift store on occassion, I have NEVER wanted one in any neighborhood I lived in. With the exception of Sacramento (Natomas), this has never happened anywhere else I have ever lived! We already are having problems with shopping carts being abandoned in and around the inclusionary housing projects. I am seeing more and more tagging, garbage, and lots of crime. I have personnally witnessed people running from the stores with handfuls of merchandise (yes, theft, not shoppers). By all means, though, we Natomans have not lost enough yet. Let’s make sure we continue to cater to the new demographic of the neighborhood while we property owner’s continue to foot the bill (have you noticed your taxes have gone up?). In case you don’t think this will affect you, please do stop by some of the other Goodwill stores. Notice the security gaurds??? See all the abandoned junk??? And don’t forget the garbage and crime!
Say goodbye to any chance to sell your homes in the future. I think Joe already moved so now he’s become quite the egalitarian.
The Goodwill is going to exacerbate the problems in the area big time. The few business still around will tank thanks to the new Goodwill. Then the commercial property owner will tank with them as well.
I’d like to know what the ACTUAL statistics are in North Natomas regarding empty storefronts vs. non-empty. Joe, do you know? Or how one finds out? Fer instance, if there are, say, “100″ store spaces in No. Natomas, how many of those are empty?
I’m still here in North Natomas–although admittedly we’re like an athlete on Injured Reserve whose prognosis is “day to day”
Sadly, as powerful as the anti-Goodwill [sounds kinda funny from a philanthropic standpoint, doesn't it?], arguments are, I firmly believe it is too late for all this passion about North Natomas’s future.
But don’t take it from me. The facts speak for themselves…
So there ya have it. 8.5 PERCENT (!!!) of Natomas housing is ALREADY low income and there is another 6.5% PLANNED AND COMING TO A NEW LOW INCOME MEGAPLEX NEAR YOU VERY SOON–and there is nothing you can do to stop it because the city AND THE POLICE claim there is little to no connection between crime and low income housing. The only thing that could stop North Natomas from becoming 15% low income is LAWSUITS. Period. End of argument. And as long as there is 15% low income in this tiny little area you should be praying for Goodwill. That’s my position. I’m not changing it.
Joe said—”The only thing that could stop North Natomas from becoming 15% low income is LAWSUITS. Period. End of argument. And as long as there is 15% low income in this tiny little area you should be praying for Goodwill. That’s my position. I’m not changing it.”
You are probably right Joe. But rather than spend my time suing the city I’m just going to pack up my stuff and move.
Read ‘em and weep.
Dear Trader Joe’s, why haven’t you moved to Natomas!!?
Whoa look at all the sudden communty pride No Natomas! Wow where were all you community preservationists when they were slamming down the boards to surround you all with inclusionary housing? Maybe you were boating on the river of kicking a soccer ball with your kids thinking everything was just grand. Reality bites doesn’t it? Welcome to reality
Joe,
Sorry to hear you so negative on Natomas Park. Many fine families live here and want to raise healthy kids here, attend the local schools, parks, shop local and make this a great community. We have seen problems with crime and certainly more low income housing. Won’t the other 85% of the housing make this a suitable place to live. Further, many arn’t opposed to Goodwill, just its placement needs rethinking. God Almighty, I just came back from RC Willys in Rocklin, there was a Dollar Tree store, many nail shops and and several big vacant store fronts, fast food joints, a Big Walmart, it almost looked like Natomas. You are right that we need to accept a different plan here, it is up to us to make the future better and not give up.
Charlie..um.. seriously you can give up now…
There are TWO PEOPLE to blame for 90% of the problems in North Natomas.
North Natomas was specifically designed by our progressive former Mayor Heather Fargo and your Councilman Ray Tretheway to be an “Inclusive” community. That’s a catchy buzz word for lots of low income units included. They did this to offset many of the downtown developments and luxury lofts that their wealthy developer friends were building downtown, but who did not want to include low income units. So they swapped them to North Natomas… Heather & Ray knew this and promoted it.
North Natomas will evolve into a complete ghetto in the next ten years and there is NOTHING that will stop this transition. It is the nature of neighborhoods in general, all neighborhoods rise and fall with the exception of very wealthy neighborhoods, but especially one that has been designed like North Natomas.
My prediction, many will continue to lose their homes due to the economy, driving down housing prices even further over the next couple of years…we have not seen the bottom yet…many will be so under water on their mortgages they may just walk away and rent elsewhere… and once the economy becomes strong again and house prices start to go back up….there will be the largest flight of people out of a community than has ever been seen in Sacramento. WHITE FLIGHT… In it’s wake will be a mostly minority community filled with rentals and low income apartment buildings. and the community will continue a downward spiral. And to make myself clear I am not anti minority in any sense… it’s just the reality of how neighborhoods evolve…North Natomas will evolve like all neighborhood evolve… but at a much faster pace due to the horrible planning by the City. It will be a stucco ghetto…
Meanwhile, the city is in the process of annexing 20 thousand more acres of farm land up north…in the new North North Natomas.. in order to build more exclusive privately patrolled & gated communities do to the demand by the old North Natomas residents, like the vocal closet racist self proclaimed Creekside “community leaders,” so they can move somewhere to feel safer and more exclusive….. watch and learn grasshopper.
All thanks to Heather and Ray.and their financial ties to developers.
I’d like to know what the ACTUAL statistics are in North Natomas regarding empty storefronts vs. non-empty. Joe, do you know? Or how one finds out? Fer instance, if there are, say, “100″ store spaces in No. Natomas, how many of those are empty? Just curious.
Hey I am kinda bummed Joe, the map you have did not show a black house icon on my address… two weeks ago at 3 AM two young African American kids tried to break into my house.. pretty f’n brazen since.they knew I was home… so maybe it just counted as an attempted home invasion? It should have at least merited a brown hose icon!
All I can say is they are very lucky they did not get through my security gate they were trying to pry open.
Took the cops about 6 minutes to respond. A lot can happen in 6 minutes… I think I may have felt bad to have had to shoot them.
Meanwhile my dog slept through the whole thing…I need a new dog
Lawless: I do not know but am trying to find out. Cole, do you know?
I haven’t given up; reality has given way.. to a new paradigm that holds this community will eventually be 15% low income and hence we need retail to support these folks.
Guest commentator: exactly.
So here are the results of some of the e-mails and phone calls I have made over the past few days:
1. E-mailed KJ on Friday telling him the situation, etc. Got a personal e-mail back yesterday saying his team will look into it. Don’t know what that means but if enough Natomas people contact him…
2. E-mailed RT last Wednesday. Haven’t heard from him yet. This marks the fouth or so e-mail or message I’ve sent to him with no response. I am not sure what his excuse is, maybe he was in Washington asking for some bailout money and he couldn’t get back to me in time (wait…that’s KJ and he did get back to me the next day).
3. E-mailed my Rep with the NP Association. They said they would bring it up in their next committee meeting. Again, not sure what that means but I’ll press forward either way.
I am going to press for some community meeting on this issue and I hope all of us are there if and when it happens. I can’t say any lawsuit will come of this but I do remember Hooters moved without a lawsuit being filed.
This also bring me to the point of providing a bit of perspective. Anybody remember when the Stanford Settlement opened? Watch a Kings game…in the old Arco Arena? Anybody attend one of Tony Lopez’s fights, the ones aired live on NBC so many years ago? How about hearing sharing family stories about picking tomatoes in the fields off of El Centro? People, Natomas has always been a bit on the rough side since my childhood growing up across the street from Northgate Park (where I lived during the shooting that prompted the formation of the Natomas Mother’s Group). My family and I have seen this area from its beginning. This community has had many highs and lows over the past few decades but is generally filled with good, honest people whose ability to live normal, peacful lives on a daily basis keep this community from turning into the 9th circle many people on this site feel it will become in just a few years. Goodwill or not…Natomas will move on, and for perspective’s sake, I think better than 1999, 1989, 1979, etc…
Is this Goodwill thing a done deal or is this all speculation?
Armando,
Thank you for adding humility here, I like hearing the old stories. I know what Joe and other’s are saying about the community plan failures, but at the end of the day we all have pretty good lives here despite some set backs. The community is still growing and we have the ability to make it better. I look forward to reading more of your views on Natomas.
I wish all you dreamers luck with your delusional ideas
@The Gadfly – Roughly where do you live? I am in Regency Park (right by the big park). Just wondering how close it is getting.
Armando, you make some good points. But I was not suggesting a single lawsuit was the solution for stopping a Goodwill from opening; my lawsuit position was referring to stopping the 15% planned low income occupancy rate for North Natomas in general.
As for Goodwill, you’re right, an organized community protest (or enough letters and calls to Good will), could probably prevent them from setting up shop, but I don’t think the Hooters analogy was relevant; we’re talking a non profit organization versus a restaurant chain that celebrates the objectification of women. No comparison.
The idea that a Goodwill store would somehow downgrade the quality of life here is slippery slope at best. There is zero evidence to support the conclusion that crime would rise, that Jack’s would move out, that beggars and pandhandlers would line the Park Place shopping center, etc. It’s all speculation–at best. At worst it is something I won’t even bother to broach..
Roger,
We do have issues here, but please explain why it is better in other parts of Sac? Parts of Roseville and Rocklin looked like Natomas the other day, I am searching for someone to tell me why it is so unliveable here now.
Charlie, who said it was unlivable? And what exactly are your standards for livability? From a physiological standpoint, sure it’s livable. BUT.. if you expand livability to include things like pedestrian-friendly, bike-friendly, great school districts, family venues, cop-to-resident-ratio, per capita violent crime rate, safe public transportation, community centers, community activities, and so forth, the comparisons to Roseville and Rocklin aren’t so sound.. are they?
Also, Dear Sac PD: when are we going to see the report Chief Braziel promised us? You know, the one that would show crime rates comparing the new “buddy system” versus the old system when there were twice as many cops cars on the street. Still waiting for that report from September
Armando – you want to sue Goodwill? For what?
Republicrat – I am not at liberty to divulge my whereabouts specifically… I live in South Natomas off El Camino.
Joe – In my experience a lawsuit re – inclusionary housing would be knocked out immediately. Unless you could show that they have not followed state laws or their own ordinances. The problem is also showing how you were harmed…by living near low income people… not going to fly… A Declaratory Relief suit could be brought if they have violated an ordinance or statute…or maybe how low income housing is unevenly distributed…but they may have taken care of that when passed the ordinance that directed low income housing to designated growth areas…they will claim that older areas could not absorb the state mandated inclusionary housing element.
Politicians only act out of fear or political contributions….I have never seen a politician act out of”doing what is right” for the community….A better and more effective way to deal with this is to make sure that our elected officials know their is will be a price to pay for their policies that helped line the pockets of their developer friends…. We kicked out Heather… now we MUST kick out Ray for what he has done to our district (don’t even get me started on the NNFP). If we throw him out…whoever replaces him will take pause before pissing down are backs.
Gadfly, Armando was saying he didn’t think a lawsuit would be necessary to stop Goodwill—which is something I never suggested (I was referring to lawsuits to stop 15% inclusionary housing push)
Gadfly, regarding kicking out Ray, we have said all along that IS the ultimate remedy, but apparently people are too PC to consider such a bold move. So once again, as I said, it is what it is. I say get used to it.
Trivia: what famous Greek philosopher was called a “gadlfy” by Plato in The Republic?
The focus should be on location WITHIN north Natomas. I donate OFTEN to Goodwill ..however I live in NATOMAS PARK and would personally have NO use for a Goodwill store. I have absolutely no problem having a Goodwill store in the Target shopping center, the former Calfornia furniture store location etc. Placing a Goodwill in another location serves all purposes. What I need in MY neighborhod are things I can do with my children .. Babies R Us, Chucky Cheese, Party City, Indoor Bounce House, Michaels, pottery, scrapbooking, hobby store, etc .. All things that better serve a store front located WITHIN the NATOMAS PARK community. I love my neighborhod, my kids’ schools and my community. I’m all about helping. Be honest, don’t you agree there are PLENTY OF OTHER LOCATIONS WITHIN -NORTH NATOMAS- TO ACCOMPLISH ALL OF THESE GOALS?
“Again, in my opinion the City of Sacramento BLEW IT with North Natomas by saddling it with high concentrations of low income housing that SHOULD HAVE been dispersed throughout the city–especially in the absence of a properly-staffed police force, adequate social and youth services, and retail outlets geared towards low income families. To be sure, I believe the city made unacceptable, irresponsible, and reckless decisions about North Natomas, and I hold them directly accountable for the exorbitant number of robberies and burglaries that have taken place here in the past several years–not to mention the many many issues with youth.”
-The above is the finest summary of the area I have read from you Joe. I, like many of the residents there feel betrayed and am furious at what the city did to an area with such potential. The city be damned for their moves.
I will never buy another property within Sacramento city limits…ever.
So Crates?
Socrates it is
I have been reading a lot of philosophy stuff lately and I continue to marvel at how important skepticism has been in nearly every aspect of human evolution. Modern day ignorance writes the skeptic off as pessimistic, or “glass half full,” but in reality we can thank skeptics for nearly every advance in nearly every field–including physics. Every great philosopher and inventor characterizes skepticism as a virtue it seems; and it seems only those with the “herd” mentality are agitated by it.
Goodwill may or may not increase crime but that’s a side note. An important one but a side note. People’s gripes are many, but one of the driving reasons behind our malcontent is that Goodwill opening up is the sign of a community on a decline. You could argue, legitimately, that began a while ago or we’ve already bottomed. But the Goodwill is a jab in the eye that just adds to the pain. What it will do to already plummeting property values. will be devastating.
Like many of us have said, there are far better locations for Goodwill than the former Borders. I really think they ought to consider those.
No reason to sweep the problem under the rug to another neighborhood
“For if you kill me you will not easily find another like me, who, if I may use such a ludicrous figure of speech, am a sort of gadfly, given to the state by the God; and the state is like a great and noble steed who is tardy in his motions owing to his very size, and requires to be stirred into life. I am that gadfly which God has given the state and all day long and in all places am always fastening upon you, arousing and persuading and reproaching you.”
erf… couple things…
1) goodwill irritates me… merely because they get stuff for free from the community, then turn around and make a profit from it… i wish i’d have thought of that first.
2) i live in north natomas. i’m a renter. really nice ~1700 sq ft, 3 bd house with 2 car garage in a cul de sac with friendly neighbors and all that good stuff…
3) and i am POOR. man oh man am i poor! being self employed in today’s economic debacle (i blame bush, btw…but that’s another story) certianly has it’s negative merits.
4) every day, in my neighborhood, i see crazy looking white people that i cross the street for when i’m riding my bike. every day in my neighborhood, i see crazy looking blacks that i cross the street for when i’m riding my bike. every day, in my neighborhood, i see crazy looking asian people, indian people, and eastern european people, that i cross the street for when i’m riding my bike. it makes for a pretty long ride just to get to the next block…but whatever, it’s good excersize.
you know what i don’t see much of though? hispanics…. where are all the crazy hispanics at to help round out our crazy neighborhood that really, in all truths, ain’t gonna get no crazier by a simple store such as Goodwill (even though Goodwill stores ARE pretty gross).
Moving the Goodwill to let’s say the the deep ends of Northgate will be more appropriate to serve the people Goodwill caters to. Or even the empty shopping areas near Target. That’s hardly burying it under the rug, Greg Brady.
The phrase “nattering nabobs of negativity” comes to mind after reading many of the comments on this blog. I’m with Joe on this one: “…is what it is. I say get used to it.”
Other trite comments to mull over: “When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.” “Don’t suffer over your suffering.”
I agree with mister joe on this one too. You people are in for a long hard fight if you want to make your north natomas some kind of upper class enclave when a soon-to-be 15% of your demographic is below the poverty line. Get a clue!
y’all up North are a bunch of crackers…being against goodwill and complaining about what “element” it will attract is nothing but code for racism.
It does not surprise me, I’m used to it by now, but what pisses me off a bit is most of this stuff is coming from the Creekside folks who have staked their claim as the leaders of North Natomas. I saw their cracker asses on the news, it’s like they were from the South in the 1950’s.
I don’t want a bunch of racist crackers leading my neighborhood.
Finally the race card is used, what took so long. Give me a freakin break, residents are wanting a store that causes blight and known problems moved from their neighboorhood a short distance, and that becomes racist, how stupid. The same argument was used when people complained that the Target carts were cropping up on Del Paso Rd. and wanted them removed. The worn out and stale contention that race is the underlying cause details how morally bankrupt this view is. It is simple, most of us want to live peacefully with one another in a vibrant and prosperous community free of crime and upheaval. As for of Creekside residents, they strike me as more progressive than other’s.
Big Brother- You’re the only one throwing race into the argument. You’re like the African-American designers bitching because Michelle Obama chose an Asian-American designer’s dress. SO WHAT? Maybe she liked the dress better. Not everything is about race, get over yourself. What you’ve never seen poor white people and latinos?
As for being called a cracker, your own ignorance shines through. You must have gone to school in our district. I’m sorry for you that our education system didn’t do a better job making you feel like you could succeed on your own without somehow thinking everyone is “the man” keeping you down.
I’ve written every email and made every phone call I can think of. I’ve read the arguments about why a Goodwill is good for North Natomas. Lawless Jane- your ability to just roll over and take whatever is throw at you is stunning. Do you ever fight back?
It’s my money, my time, my son’s education, my career invested in this neighborhood. I’m not just going to make some lemonade… nobody here will have any cups left to drink it with me.
To be clear: When I said “It is what it is,” I was referring to acceptance of the fact that North Natomas will ultimately have more low income than any other neighborhood in Sacramento–I wasn’t referring strictly to the Goodwill store per se.
To say my support for the Goodwill store per se should be considered a surrender of sorts, ignores the underlying cause for my support.. which again is acceptance of the low income reality in North Natomas.
In other words I will support any and all such retail propositions that will bring much needed services and products to my lower income neighbors. Not because I have rolled over, but because I accept the fact that they are here, they are in need, and to deny them relief would be to ignore their presence in my community.. and I simply can not do that in good conscience. It’s an ethics issue for me I suppose.
That said, IF the reality could be changed (i.e. the low income 15% goal could be abolished), I might be inclined to think differently. But as long as the reality IS WHAT IT IS, I’m accepting it and acting accordingly.
SacramentoBlog, I can’t tell you how much fighting I’ve done — it wouldn’t fit on the page. The phrase “it is what it is” to me means “It is what it is — right NOW.” Since the NOW is all we have, sometimes I just have to accept certain situations until it’s time for them to change. In the meantime, I take what steps I can to try to figure out what’s next. “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.” Like that. I don’t really have to justify myself on a blog where no one really knows me, but I will say that I’ve done a lot through my church to help homeless people, veterans & teens. Many years ago I also volunteered for about 10 years with developmentally disabled children. I don’t live where I would LIKE to live right now, but I keep trying to make the best of it & I keep an eye on the neighborhood I live in, looking for suspicious people & vehicles. And I pick up trash that gets left on my street when need be. I agree with most of what Joe said above (#81) — “I’m accepting it & acting accordingly.”
I don’t get your reasoning, Joe. Doesn’t Wal-Mart already cater to lower income people as well as everyone else? Their needs are ALREADY being served. In fact they’ve been over served at the expense of others. Seems to me a store that everyone can shop at is better than a store that is just directed at one demographic.
Oh and I totally agree with you, SacramentoBlog.
Sons… WalMart is not in the neighborhood in question.
I am new to Natomas Park–just moved here three months ago from S. Natomas. I had always thought NP was a desirable place to live and I think it still is. We’re on a great street off N. Bend near the elem. school. So, my question is, and pardon my ignorance, but where is all of this low income housing that everyone is talking about? I guess if I had to take a stab at it, I’d say it’s located directly behind Safeway, but I am not sure. I don’t see Natomas Park, Regency Park, Heritage Park, and Creekside as low-income areas. Someone please fill me in!!!
Although I am not opposed to Goodwill stores, I do think the placement of one in the Border’s location is a bad idea. Does anyone have any updates on what is going on? Are committees being formed to fight this? Thanks for any help/info you can provide.
The Goodwill stores are not the problem…
…it is the ignorant people who dump their junk on the doorstep or side lot who think these after hours “donations” are 1) legal and 2) helpful. I have seen PILES of junk around Goodwill stores in my life and there is little the workers can do except hang out a “no dumping” sign and clean it up everyday.
Do you want a rotating junkyard next to a Goodwill when you go grocery shopping? It is not pretty and NOT helpful to try to retain home values. I am all for helping those less fortunate, but have it in a facility that can accomodate all the less savory practices that go with it. You can’t just throw a Goodwill in a strip mall and wag your finger at people who object; you have to have the right type of building to have a successful store or it helps no one!
In a way, this all isn’t really about a Goodwill store. It’s about politicians & developers & realtors lying to people. I live in So. N., not North, BUT I DO feel badly for everyone who trusted the mayor & city council & the developers & realtors, etc. You were cheated — they took your money & then left you holding an empty bag.
WallMart is down the street, Joe. Is driving on Truxel like climbing Everest now? North Natomas is a bedroom community which means everyone works someplace else. Everyone has cars so don’t feed me some crap that these people don’t.
Yeah we were lied to but the residents are fighting back. Fargo was thrown out of office, Johnson was elected mayor, the strong mayoral proposal in on the ballet despite the rabid opposition on this blog, now a serious community debate is occurring over Goodwill. These events occurred because people in this town are fed up. I sense change is happening and some of you cynics are clinging on to what happened in the past as an indicator what will occur in the future. I’m actually more bullish on Sacramento/North Natomas now then I was a year ago. A strong movement to throw Treethaway out of office will be coming in the near future.
Sons of liberty wrote:
How do you know? Countless people have emailed me about their plans to throw Ray out, none of them to be heard from again. Jim Knapp and John Dahilig are the only ones I know of that are serious about it, and every time Jim has broached it with the community’s association heads, they shun him. No one wants to ruffle feathers. So please do tell of the forthcoming strong movement.
Hi Heidi. I don’t think it would be a junk yard. You couldn’t see the heaps of junk from Jack’s patio at least
Oh no you didn’t!… now you crackers are bad mouthing Walmart? Hey now…I consider myself middle class, I own my own home, I am not on social services… and I LOVE Walmart…I shop there to save money…It’s cheaper than Target for the same products…I think that’s just smart living…why waste hard earned cash…
And btw I have two kids…we shop at Goodwill and Deseret Thrift store for kids clothes and toys..much less expensive than spending 15-25 bucks for a pair of pants that a 4 year old wears for less than 6 months.
Ask my 5 year old wear is the best place to buy toys…she will tell you the thrift store… Sure, I can afford to but a 40 dollar robot transformer for my son, who will be bored with it in less than two weeks…but why do that? I grew up playing with dirt clods, and survey sticks as a sword and a trash can lid as a shield…using my imagination…I had a great childhood…I am teaching my children to be frugal with their money and shop wisely…something most Americans have not done…one of the many reasons our economy is in the crapper…people buying too much over priced crap on credit cards while trying to keep up with the Jones and to keep appearances that they are wealthier than they are…all financed on credit from over priced stores selling a bunch of crap we don’t need.
I drive a Lexus, paid cash for my home and my children go to exclusive private schools…how many of you bitching about Goodwill can say that? Am I the demographic you want to keep out of your neighborhood?
I welcome Goodwill with open arms, and I will shop their regularly.
The election is when again, Joe? I don’t think it’s this year. 2010? Wait until we are at least several months away before you make dumb snide remarks. Thx.
You were wrong about the strong mayoral proposal. This city was hungry for change even when you weren’t. That’s how Johnson got his 32,000 signatures almost in a week. It’ll pass easily when it comes voting time.. Nobody wants Johnson to wait and build bridges with the losers that led this city to where it is now. Except maybe you. You’ll be wrong again if you think Treethaway won’t be unseated. He will. Give it time. I didn’t say it was gonna happen tomorrow now did I?
What was I wrong about? Did you see the poll I ran? It yielded a landslide victory AGAINST the strong mayor proposal (note: 95% of the visitors on this site are within city limits). Furthermore, how do we know for sure those 37,000 signatures are even legit? Has the county combed through them? Half of them could be no good for all we know.. right? I heard there were homeless people collecting signatures, and on top of that they were getting paid PER SIGNATURE. So please do tell how you ascertained your numbers — outside of what has been reported by the Bee, etc.
Did you see the results of the other poll I ran asking people how they would proceed as mayor? 90% said they would build bridges. I am confident I am not alone on this. Please explain where you came up with the idea that I was a lone wolf on this. I am all ears.
Oh come 2010? Sure, yes, I believe he will be unseated. I thought you were suggesting he would be usurped prior to that. I agree his run will be over in 2010. Too bad it couldn’t be earlier because he is a MAJOR reason North Natomas is by and large a colossal failure SO FAR.
Thanks for posting
Dear Big Brother – Funny thing is, I don’t even mind you calling me a cracker. Stick and stones. But you can bet if I’d have used a racial epithet, well you see what I’m saying. I never said anything about race in relationship to Goodwill. I actually don’t see that having anything to do with it. I simply said that I don’t want to live in a neighborhood (and this store would be literally, in the neighborhood) where the best we can do is a second hand store. Sacramentoblog is right – what is wrong with aspiring for more? When did wanting improvements become NIMBY? It is short sighted to say that something is better than nothing. If we sit back and accept whatever is offered to (dare I say forced on) us, we have nowhere to go but further down hill. I also think that this store would be a better fit for the community in another location, say on Del Paso where the California Furnishing store used to be. Plenty of parking and ample area for drop-off, no residents to annoy with debris and trash. I don’t see the Border’s location as bringing in dollars for the other businesses and restaurants, it’s not the same clientele.
And by the way, I do not live in Creekside, nor do I represent them. I am in “leadership” in the community that I live in, Natomas Park, but at no point did I represent myself as such in the interview. Just a resident speaking my mind.
Final comment for The Gadfly. “Oh no you didn’t” was written in error (if you are referring to the Channel 13 website) – I said, “Oh, no you don’t” – and they corrected it. I’m NOT a supporter of WalMart or SamsClub. Of course you can get items cheaper there, but at what price? I suggest you rent “WalMart: The High Cost of Low Prices”. Huge eye opener for what that company does to the american employee, welfare system and the environment. I don’t spoil my kids or have credit card debt, but I can shop and support several businesses and still find good deals and always buy things on sale, never full price. It can definitely be done without the WalMarts (and even Goodwill’s) of the world.
Thanks,
Tristan Godt
Hi Trixie,
I saw your interview on the news and was proud to have a Natomas Park neighbor speaking up against this! I thought you did a great job and expressed yourself well. I have recently moved into NP as I always thought it a desirable place to live.
I am serious about protesting Goodwill and want to join any effort to prevent them from setting up shop. So far on this blog I can only find bickering. Where is the community organization, if any? Are there going to be any meetings? How can I get in contact with you?
Thanks again for your valuable comments. Those who have worked hard to live in this community deserve to have a say in what literally goes in our backyards. Hope to hear from you soon.
Reader: You’re entitled to your opinion, and I welcome it, but to blow the opposing arguments off as merely childish postulating is pretty.. juvenile. This site has always welcomed opinions of all sorts for the purpose of spirited debate, but to blast the debate itself is–to me–more counterproductive (and superfluous) than any of the comments that have been made here
That said, I would appreciate if you guys would stop using incendiary words like “cracker” and “nigga.” I don’t see how these words contribute anything of value to the debate, and I won’t approve them going forward.
Also, to recapitulate my position on Goodwill possibility, as I wrote on Sac Blog’s site:
“In my opinion, fighting Goodwill is fighting effects, not root causes. I feel Goodwill is an effect of low income housing. I say if you’re going to fight something, fight the next incoming wave of low income housing about to wash ashore here in North Natomas. Unless we get to the root causes of why Goodwill wants to set up here in the first place, we’re only prolonging the inevitable.”
Also, I have a personal/moral obstacle is denying this low income-heavy area a Goodwill. Who am *I* to say my neighborhood is too good for a Goodwill?
Anyways, good to see Natomas residents finally opening their eyes and talking about these issues. Perhaps there is some hope.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I didn’t intend to come across that way. What I meant was that debate can only get us so far. We can talk all we want about it, but action will only get us results. I am grateful that you have established this forum giving residents the opportunity to voice their opinions. However, I am at the point now in which it is time to move on and take action. Having not gotten involved in politics before, I really don’t know where to start. Tretheway has not answered two of my husband’s emails. Next is a call to his office…
You brought up excellent points. I was just told today that a new Goodwill store is on Norwood Ave and that is only two exits from Natomas. Do you think we really need all of these Goodwill stores in such close proximity to one another?
Thanks again for your service to our community and country.
P.S. I would appreciate it if you could forward my email address to Trixie confidentially. Thanks.
Reader: thanks for clarifying. I will fwd your email.
Also, I am wondering how the other Natomas association heads feel about this. Specifically I’d be interested in knowing how Angelique Ashby of Creekside neighborhood association feels about it. Her name has been mentioned as a potential candidate for our district in 2010 so I think it is important we begin finding out where she (and all potential candidates) stand on this issue—as it will no doubt be one that resurfaces again.. and again.. and again.
Norwood? Do you know how far that is? 6.3 miles from Safeway.. on the other side of the railroad tracks (map below). I don’t think we should make the assumption that our low income neighbors have transportation; I see MANY of them walking and at bus stops.. don’t you?
I am very interested to hear what the association people think of the idea as well and yes definitely the ones who are in the news all the time and are asked to talk about public safety like Angelique Ashby. Good lookin out Joe
How do we contact Angelique Ashby? I have heard of her before.
Joe, thanks for the map. Now I have some perspective.
I’d still like to know where all the low income housing is in NN and where the new units will be built. See my post #86. Thanks.
Reader: Type Creekside Neighborhood Association into Google and you should find her assoc blog.
The strong mayoral proposal will be on the ballot, Joe. You lost. Convincing yourself that the sigs might not be legit is good spin. Johnson and his team are great at grassroots efforts and campaigning. That’s how they got the 32,000 sigs in a week..An f’n week. That’s amazing. Having signed the petition myself I can tell you that a variety of information was required. This city is hungry for change even if you aren’t, your pseudo scientific polls notwithstanding.
Thankfully this city has an aggressive leader like Johnson. If it was up to you reform wouldn’t occur. We should all just hold hands and not offend anyone. Because that’s what “building bridges” is about. What a joke.
See some of the responses here? THIS CITY IS HUNGRY FOR CHANGE.
As I have said ad nauseam, I am FINE with it being on the ballot—>in November after we have seen what kind of leader Johnson is going to be. Perfect. I have lost nothing. I have actually won.
Huh? I didn’t say SAG wasn’t legit; I said rumor has it SAG was started by Kevin Johnson, NOT by a group of grassroots citizens. Hence if Kevin Johnson and his people started it, it would not be “grass roots” as the site claims; it would be POLITICAL, and hence there is an element of deceptiveness. Furthermore, you actually supported this rationale when you said “Johnson and his team are great at grass roots efforts.” My point exactly. So it sounds like we both agree SAG is a KJ storefront, which validates the rumor I have heard. So thanks.
Hold hands? Not offend anyone? Did I say that? No. Let’s be really clear here: Holding hands and not offending anyone is YOUR definition of BRIDGE BUILDING, not mine. My definition of bridge building is making inroads, talking to the opposition, building a coalition of DIVERSE interests (not just those of your fan club), having thoughtful debate, compromising, negotiating, and doing all those things DIPLOMATS do. It seems you are not a fan of diplomacy. That’s cool with me, but let’s at least call the type of leadership you espouse by its rightful name: DICTATORIAL GOVERNANCE. I am not a fan of this style of leadership, and never will be. You can have it.
So am I. And when Mayor KJ shows he can be trusted with that kind of power, I’ll be the first to vote for it.
You call 37,000 UNVALIDATED signatures “the residents of this town”?? Wow you are a very trusting person. More power to you. I must say your blind allegiance to KJ is beginning to sound suspicious though.
Huh? I’m not backpedaling. I STILL question the validity of the signatures!
What? I was saying the idea to PUSH THE REFERENDUM without consulting anyone is dictatorial, not the strong mayor position! Am I that bad of a communicator or do you have some cognitive challenges?
I AM ALL FOR STRONG MAYOR AFTER HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF!
I am done arguing in circles with you. Your allegiance to Johnson is 100% and absolute. Mine is not. We will never see eye to eye. Feel free to criticize my posts anytime, but I will take your criticism with a grain of salt because you seem unwilling to consider ANY argument, no matter how valid.
And why are you posting about strong mayor on my Goodwill thread? I just realized that. PLEASE stay on topic. This conversation belongs in the strong mayor article thread. I will delete any further off topic posts here.
I love the fact this string went past a hundred posts….is this a record Joe?
Great job
Yeah man great participation here. Love it. Love seeing people finally getting involved. I’m amazed though that so many North Natomas residents aren’t even aware there is low income housing. Wow.
Joe sucks —-. [censored by Joe]
Another one bites the dust.
Sons of Liberty’s IP address has been logged and banned permanently.
Notice how all the abusive ones accuse me of sucking something? Remember the Fargo fanatic that said I was on my knees for Johnson? There have been others, too. Why do guys always go there with other guys when they get angry? Never understood that.
I wish we could pile up all of this dialogue, put it into a large sack and drop it on Heather Fargo’s doorstep. God this is infuriating.
Cb75 – lol OK that’s funny and reminds me of the 70’s when as a kid when we would fill bags with dog crap, put them on a doorstep, light them, ring the doorbell and run like hell….
We will have our chance to dump on her soon enough, she plans on running for the D9 Assembly seat to replace Dave Jones; I cant wait.
I must admit I never did that doorbell ditch stunt as a kid.
Angelique Ashby emailed me the following statement about Goodwill potentially opening where Borders was:
Of course I disagree because no community–esp one with 9% low income !!–is too good for a Goodwill store), but it appears a lot of homeowners feel the same way. No word from the renters yet. I will be soliciting their opinion soon.
Thanks Angelique for weighing in
LOL typical Ashby fence sitting double speak…she says basically nothing…which says a lot… We need goodwill for “the” community… just not in “our” community…
And she want to run for Tretheway’s Council seat in 2010. LOL we already have one disingenuous-double speaking-mealy-mouthed-good-ol-boy….. why would we replace him with her?
How about someone who speaks clearly and decisively and has independent thoughts…clearly Ashby is not that person.
Ms. Ashby in what friggen country do you prefer to live in China? Where the government can tell business where they may or may not open? Business is controlled by the free market..thank goodness, as opposed to you and your busy body cronies…business will open where they feel they have the most economically viable chance at producing revenue. IF it were left up to you, all business who wanted to locate in Natomas would need to meet with the Creekside Association to get an approval before they could open up for business…well no thanks…We don’t need you or your cronies deciding what opens in Natomas. I place my trust a true free market to regulate itself and where it should open a storefront. (Goodwill is a non profit…however they run the stores in a for profit manner)
If it were up to Ashby’s “community” to determine..they would vote minorities out of their neighborhood…thanks goodness our democracy protects us from the likes of Ashby and her “Community” of #$#@$%@
The “community” consists of more than just the cranky homeowners who have spoken out on lists and so forth. The community is quite diverse in reality. If you did a door-to-door (esp all those apartments within a stone’s throw from where Goodwill would be), I will bet anything MANY people would say it’s a GREAT idea (esp all those single moms in those apartments… and Terracina… and…)
So if that is the “large part” of your rationale (that the community has spoken and they don’t want it there), then what remains of your rationale? What are the smaller parts? I am interested in knowing.
Personally I am shocked by what I am hearing. I have written all members of the council and the mayor, and when/if this comes up for community input in a forum setting, I think we need more people there than just homeowners worried about property values (those are slippery slope fallacies anyways with absolutely nothing concrete in the way of stats to support them). Furthermore, homeowners are only one segment of the community, and with the number of foreclosures and rentals out there now, a dwindling one..
From the Creekside Natomas Email list. Here is a report from a resident who went to the Goodwill on Norwood. As you can see, nothing to be afraid of. Goodwill is a great store and would be a welcome addition to our cash-strapped community..
> At the request of a fellow neighborhood activist I visited a
> Goodwill store last Sunday to gather some facts, I choose
> the one on Norwood as it’s the closest to us
> geographically. Attached are a few photos of the interior
> & exterior of the store, see my next email for two more
> photos of the interior. I didn’t contact anyone at
> Goodwill either before or during my visit. Here’s what
> I observed and learned:
>
> Exterior
> The front was clean – no trash, no one loitering
>
> Interior
> reasonably clean;
> Carpeted area right inside door a little messy, mostly
> leaves
> Merchandise areas organized & orderly, a few items on
> the floor, especially in the toy area, but no worse then
> I’ve seen in major retailers
>
> Clientele
> mixed, people of varied ages & ethnicities, several
> families with young children, all were actively shopping, no
> one just “hanging out” (NOTE: I deliberately avoided
> customers in my photos as much as possible)
>
> I spoke with Norman, a manager at the large “Viva”
> grocery store next door, asked him;
>
> What type of neighbor is Goodwill?
> “A good one,” he related how if the Goodwill
> store manager sees any of her customers using a Viva cart
> she makes a point of bringing them a Goodwill cart and
> making sure the Viva cart is returned. He said the front of
> their store is always clean and the back area is
> extraordinarily clean (where donations come in and are
> sorted).
>
> Any problems with Goodwill’s clientele? Any crime
> issues?
> No problems with Goodwill’s clients, does have problems
> with clients of a couple of the other businesses,
> specifically the cigarette shop and the tee shirt shop.
>
> Other factors to consider;
>
> the real estate market
> the commercial real estate market is taking a real hit
> right now. There is a lot of vacant retail space right now
> and businesses both large & small are continuing to
> close. There are very few businesses expanding or new
> businesses opening in this economy. Vacant storefronts can
> have a detrimental effect on the appearance, draw &
> desirability of shopping centers.
>
> who shops at thrift stores?
> it’s not just the low income, middle class people shop
> at thrift stores as a way to stretch their dollars,
> particularly in this economy. Look at the cars parked in
> front of the Goodwill store in my photos — not much
> different then what you see at our shopping centers.
Image Creekside email list user took of Norwood Ave Goodwill…
Scary!! Ghetto! Goodbye property values!!! Homeless central!! Scumbag headquarters!!!
Sheeyeah right.
Yes, as I mentioned – I highly recommend that you with concerns take a hard look at the Goodwill organization here in Sacramento run by Joe Mendez. A MODEL program he brought down from Seattle. I’m kind of blown away by the fact that so many haven’t done their due diligence before expounding on the topic.
This is not the exclusive Rodeo Dr and you do not live in Brentwood. Joe is right that this area is made up of MANY types of people – not just upwardly mobile HOA homeowners and not just inclusionary housing.
Our four high schools rate 3-7 with GreatSchools. Not so great.
Our high crime rate is having inroads made because of active participation by the people who live here and the interest of the police department in reducing crime. But, you live in high density urban neighborhoods. This is a CITY – where crime is part of the parcel. Crime is mostly crime of opportunity. Lock your doors, put your cars in the garage, and get an alarm.
It seems to me, and I know some will disagree, that I’m hearing that residents here think anything negative that is happening in the area is somehow exclusive to this area. The entire country is hurting. The rest of Sacramento is hurting. I’d say just pick up and move yourselves to Granite Bay if you want that world without socioeconomic diversity, but many of you can’t can you? Unless you walk away upside down from your homes. So, you have to learn to live in the world you have, not the world you want. And, that world can be made a better, more inclusive place.
Many of the most brilliant minds in the country didn’t see this economic freight train coming. The city is falling apart – but that can’t be laid entirely at the doorstep of the officials that as a group, we previously elected. Our city is suffering the pangs that many, many cities are suffering through right now. Where do you all think the money will come to bail Sacramento out of its deficit? Seems that any development aspires to be something but needs the follow through of interested retailers and people who actually SPEND THEIR MONEY to keep the retailer profitable. We couldn’t do that. So now Goodwill wants to come in and add to our tax base – bad, bad Goodwill. I’ll be interested to see what KJ can actually do. Because, I think right now, there just isn’t much to be done, other than raise taxes and cover those deficits. Or continue to deny tax rate appeals for homeowners.
And, maybe you can help change things by being involved. I love how you get out there, Joe, and volunteer with people who need people in their lives to make a difference. Such a positive contributor to MY community. Thank you. There are many people who do the same. I’m sorry, but I just get so tired of the whining. Like the city owes us something–did anyone get any of those promises in writing? Hell, yeah, get rid of politicians who in times like this do 6-figure studies on tree counts – they haven’t got their priorities straight.
The talk about inclusionary housing brings this to mind for me. Back in the mid-80s, when AIDS was rampant and people were afraid, many made the suggestion that they be sent to colonies where they could not expose others – where we wouldn’t have to look at them or be around them or even remember they were there – think Leper Colony. If you push out those living in this housing, where will you push them? Where do you want them to go exactly? Put them into neighborhoods that are already devastated by poverty? Or let them stay where they are and perhaps see by example that there are ways to a life different then multi-generational poverty, where education is important, and opportunity is just some sweat equity away. If even one child can see this and change his life’s trajectory, I’m for it.
And, don’t forget, much of inclusionary housing is made up of hard-working people, some holding multiple jobs who ust can’t make enough money to have their own home or even to rent at market rates. Or are disabled, or suffering through a major shift in their economics due to life events like divorce (that thing you of the traditional marriage set do so well). These are YOUR neighbors.
Putting the Goodwill where you don’t have to look at it, but will also make it difficult for those living in YOUR community to use it isn’t the answer.
Does anyone have an update on what is happening with this issue? Are negotiations still being made between Goodwill and the landlord?
Guest Commentator, your critique of Ms. Ashby was inappropriate. Despicable is more like it. Ms. Ashby’s comments were sound and judicious, in my opinion. We homeowners in Creekside and Natomas Park were sold a vision of this neighborhood that did not include retailers like Goodwill. To have one set up shop here was definitely not a part of the bargain.
Lori, no one said this area was Rodeo Dr. or Brentwood, and personally, I don’t want to live in Granite Bay. But that does not mean that we cannot have a say in the direction this neighborhood takes and aim for something a bit more appealing.
Ms. Ashby, if you want to try to unseat Tretheway in 2010, you have my support!
Reader: Some of you act like it. You have a diverse neighborhood with inclusionary housing within the percentages that were estimated. What does “aim for something more appealing” mean? Lay it out there, kiddo–what’s it look like? White, middle-class, and homeowners? Look at Natomas Park with its rules regarding tenants use of association property. You have some solutions that integrate the entire neighborhood, or just your particular socioeconomic or perceived socioeconomic construct?
Lori, “aim for something more appealing” should be a no-brainer. It means we put in a store that elevates the quality of life in N. Natomas rather than risk bringing it down. There are already far too many neighborhoods in Sacramento that are in decline. Why should we risk one more? I bet if you took a survey of all NN residents of all income levels which establishment they’d prefer–Goodwill or something like Trader Joe’s, the response would overwhelmingly be in favor of Trader Joe’s. What do you prefer, Lori?
You are quick to make some erroneous judgmetnts about me. Simply because I do not want a Goodwill store in my neighborhood does not mean that I adovcate “white, middle-class, and homeowners” only in North Natomas. Do you know my ethnic background? Or the color of skin of the man I am married to? How about my personal, social, political, religious convictions that if I revealed here would prove you way off base? Oh, and please don’t call me “kiddo.” Thank you.
Lori, can you please explain: “Look at Natomas Park with its rules regarding tenants use of association property.” What are the rules you are referring to?
What brings down the quality of life is having empty storefronts. You had a quality store and your neighbors did not support it so it could stay open. I asked you what it looked like Reader – what does it look like?
Be specific. Trader Joes has already stated it was not in its current plans to open a store here in Natomas (why would they?) What’s your idea Reader, beyond wanting a Trader Joes?
My “preference” is to have a store that will stay open and not leave derelict spaces in our plazas. If this neighborhood has made it clear it cannot support Borders and Goodwill feels it’s a good business decision to move to this location and is willing to take a risk where other retailers are not, then I prefer that business lease that space. I thought it was a no-brainer.
Be offended all you want by my asking the question about your “perfect world.” I’ve found this entire line of thought regarding Goodwill offensive.
When did TJ’s state that it has no plans to open in Natomas? Do you have a reference? I called their customer relations number yesterday in So.Cal and they welcomed my suggestion. Now that doesn’t mean they’re going to open here; simply means they did not say yes but they didn’t say no either.
I take no offense when asked what my perfect world is. In fact, I prefer not to use the word perfect as I know that no community or society can reach perfection. I do, however, take offense when people stereotype me as “white” for wanting to protect my property values and aim for a shopping center that offers customers a bit better than Goodwill. Make no mistake, I have long been involved in charitable causes that help those in need, but is it so wrong to want something better for the neighborhood that my husband and I worked so darn hard to move into?
Just to clarify: I have nothing against whites. What I do resent are the stereotypes and boxes people put one another in according to skin color. So, if you happen to reject Goodwill, that is automatically affiliated with whiteness? Didn’t we just elect a black president thus proving to the world that the highest office in the land is not reserved for whites only? Come on, people!
Once again I will ask: what PROOF does anyone have that a GOODWILL store will degrade the quality of life in North Natomas? Does ANYONE have ANY evidence to support this ubiquitous argument? If so, PLEASE deliver it to me asap and I will be glad to post. Until then, this argument is merely–and I do mean merely–non sequitur !