Well, it’s time to move on to some other more pressing issues. I have thought a great deal about the gay marriage issue, I have listened intently and impartially to both sides. I have come to a few general conclusions, and barring any substantive events, this will probably be the last I have to say about this issue for a while..
1) I believe voters should NOT be the target of anti Prop 8 vitriol because this is most likely a civil rights issue, and as such voters should have never been able to vote on it in the first place. Props 22 and 8 should have never even been allowed to go to the ballots. If supporters of gay marriage want to be mad at someone, they should be mad at their civil rights lawyers for not getting an injunction to stop Prop 8, at Arnold for vetoing gay marriage passage twice, and at all the leaders of our country, including Obama, who do not recognize gay marriage as a civil rights issue–or didn’t until only recently.
2) If this is indeed a civil rights/human rights issue as gays say it is, states should not be allowed to decide it, nor should gays limit their protest to a single state, because after all civil rights issues affect people in ALL states, not just one state. Hence it is irresponsible and inconsistent to only champion the cause of one state’s civil rights’ victims and leave those in other states to fend for themselves. This goes for Obama too who has said this issue should be settled on the state level. Obama has said gay marriage is “above his pay grade,” and while in terms of actually impacting laws that is true, his voice should be a prominent one for any group of U.S. citizens who feel their civil rights have been stripped. This goes for all other civil rights champions too.
3) As responsible countrymen who wish to uphold the liberties afforded by our constitution, leaders from government, gay and religious communities should be meeting to discuss the volatile state of California right now and the unrest between its citizens. They should also openly discuss the manner in which people’s right to free speech has been punished (as in the case of Scott Eckern and many others), and how to avoid such character assassinating attacks in the future. Finally, they should discuss what–if anything–the passage of gay marriage would mean to churches’ right to decide who it marries, and their tax exempt status (both of which have been implicitly and explicitly threatened by radical members of the anti Prop 8 movement recently, and only hurt the gay/religious relations further).
4) Those of faith need to stop spewing vitriol, and start discussing this issue with more poise and compassion. Jesus was very clear about judging others, and Christians who are familiar with the nine fruits of the spirit should be practicing them. That includes religious organizations who are in many cases encouraging personal prejudice.
For those whom have forgotten, the nine fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5:22 are as follows:
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. ” -Galatians 5:22
Self control means NO RETALIATION. If you are going to strike back at someone, strike back with love. You should be trying to draw people TO your church, not send them away in disgust because of your prejudices. Jesus calls all sinners to his table to eat. ALL sinners. And we are ALL sinners.
Also, Christians should stop saying they are being “persecuted” for their beliefs. They are not being persecuted for simply believing in God and attempting to live Godly lives; they are being attacked–albeit unfairly because Californians should have never been allowed to vote on this issue in the first place IMO–because their VOTE stripped rights away from citizens. Granted, as I said before, I believe gays are going after the wrong people (voters), BUT the point remains: this is not like the Romans rounding up Christians for the lion’s den. This is simply a protest of what some people believe to be a stripping of their civil rights.
5) Gays need to do a lot better job educating people on this issue. They also need to call ALL civil rights leaders to the table and educate them as to why this is a civil rights issue so they can get much broader support for a national movement. This includes pulling groups like the ACLU in and individuals who are known to be friends of those who feel they are being treated as second class citizens.
Wow. If they hold a summit you should be the keynote speaker. This is quite frankly the most rational thing I have seen written about this issue since it began. Great job being impartial. I think all your points are valid. I really hope people stop fighting. -g
Welcome Gary. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I’m by no means an expert on any of these things and would be flabbergasted if anyone ever treated me as such. All I try to do is look at the situation from both standpoints and try to understand. It’s all about learning for me.
Check out this article. Americans overwhelmingly feel Hollywood does NOT reflect their values and many believe there is a concerted effort in Hollywood to de-moralize the U.S. Fascinating:
http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE4AG0VK20081117
Bravo, Joe
!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Jane
Hello Joe,
The topic is frankly getting old, let’s hear some new info. like the Bee’s story on the waste to energy proposal today. The city may enter into a bad deal, the reporter revealed several major problems with the company that would manage it. I bet Natomas would be a likely place for the plant to be built, we are the new growth area. (Remember the trash dump they wanted on Del Paso and Northgate.) Further, the company is not disclosing the emissions technical data and financial viabilities, and so far our great city has done very little review on the economic and safety standards. They plan to vote early next month. I think Ray T loves the idea despite the hazards, a full investigation is needed, hopefully the energy you devoted to prop 8 will go into subjects that have meaning on our health.
or the fact K St lies in ruins with every tenant evicted. Now, Joe Zeiden wants a bigger handout or he’ll pull out. So, the city’s answer is to open up the old buildings and put tenants back in.
$40 million spent, and the same tenants in the same old buildings.
How much would that new fire station cost?
Nice closeout article, Joe. I’ve really enjoyed participating in the discussion of this issue on your site, but I am also ready to move on to other topics for awhile. Looking forward to the next post.
Joe-
Excellent close to the series. I think you have worded it well and expressed what many feel but don’t know how to say.
I saw a really really bad accident on Del Paso and Gateway Park today around 4pm… Running the red light again. Perhaps we can beg for a little more traffic enforcement for an hour or two. Between the street racers and stupids, I’ve had enough.
I know, I know, I know. Sometimes ya get caught up in a topic and then— anyways, I have to work through things sometimes before I can move on. I have had a ton of email saying “Ok great, now move on!” So I am moving on
I am editing video now for a post on So Natomas. It will not be popular, but that’s been the story of this site since it started so nothing new… stay tuned and thanks for your support all
Can I also share a bit of good news I read today? We need some after Citigroup’s announcement that they are going to lay off a total of 70,000 now (that one’s close to my heart because they laid me off too back in 2000–can’t stand them). My somewhat good news: America may be in a doo-doo load of debt, but during world war II it was worse when our debt exceeded the gross domestic product. We recovered once and we’ll recover again. Obama is not going to ruin America. He is going to be awesome. I have very high hopes.
This is a really great story. I especially LOVE– the nine fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5:22 — “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. ” WOW. I know some are ready for you to move on but I AM VERY GLAD you did not move on before sharing this. Today I needed to read the nine fruits of the spirit. I need to always remember the spirit and to provide fruit for the tree of life I’ve been given in the city of “Sacrament” My heart is extended to all those who have battles to fight and I believe it is a distraction to fight one another—for and against….. . The voters should not have been used as a scapegoat for the “I-need-to-advance-my-career politicians to hide from.
time for me to go back to the store (the Bible) for nourishment. 
God Bless you and Thank you.
The people are always thrown a loop with distractions. You provided a vision. You provided the forest for people to look past the trees (distractions) Love disarms hate; Love disarm anger and so many are fighting anger with anger and hate with hate and so busy fighting one another they fail to see the bigger picture. Thanks Joe for helping more attempt to put together a puzzle who didn’t have a picture. Great job. And you’ll know when it is time to move on; you’ll feel it in your heart. Always follow what’s in your heart. (By the way, I need to practice some self control—my fruit bowl is missing some fruits
Thank you everyone. I hope this conversation was useful in some small way
Aw Joe this is so great. One of the most enlightened summaries of this situation I have seen. I don’t know of anyone in the news or media who has offered such an impartial and thoughtful view. I am not just saying that to pump your ego. You really have been a great voice of reason and I have come here daily looking forward to seeing how your thoughts evolve. Thanks for being you.
The conversation was not only useful—-and it is very useful– but it’s also beautiful. That is a powerful and wonderful combination.
Joe, I hate to be a nudge, but I am confused by the premise of this entire article. I have yet to see from the Constitution where marriage is mentioned at all. For something to be a human rights issue, it must be an “inalienable right”. So, you are apparently (I hope I’m right here…correct me if I’m wrong) interpreting the Constitution at some point to refer to marriage. And you must further be interpreting that part of the Constitution to be conferring upon marriage the status of human rights. For this to be a human rights issue (as you maintain), and not just a matter of interpretation of law as it applies to certain behaviors, then it must be outlined in our Constitution.
I’m just curious Joe which exact clause or amendment to the Constitution refers to marriage or sex as basic human rights. Please inform.
Mike, from your note I infer you are referrering to these two items:
1. “As responsible countrymen who wish to uphold the liberties afforded by our constitution..” Here I was referring to upholding freedom of speech, as in the case of Scott Eckern who was forced to resign his position in disgrace after being lambasted in the press for contributing to YesOnProp8. I have also been very vocal about what I believe to be voter privacy issues. I do not advocate publishing demographics.
2. “If this is indeed a civil rights/human rights issue as gays say it is..” Notice use of the word ******IF*******. In any event, I was not pointing to Constitutional law; I was referring to what I perceive to be a short-sighted strategy on their part. I.e. IF it’s a civil rights issue, why aren’t they fighting for ALL gays across America? Why just California gays?
As far as I know, the only place in the Constitution that marriage is mentioned is where Prop 8 stamped the new ban on gay marriage.
Thanks Joe. I agree this is not a Constitutional issue (referring to the Federal Constitution and the Bill of Rights). And if there are some who think it is, then they need to refer it to the Supreme Court. That is what I think should have happened instead of Prop 8. When the California Supreme court (wrongly, I believe) ruled that marriage was a right and therefore Prop 22 was invalid, it should have gone to the U.S. Supreme Court for their ruling instead of embedding a non-human rights issue into the State Constitution.
Mike, we are on the exact same page. I just wrote in Bee comments too that IF this is a civil rights issue, the gay community has a lot of convincing to do because Obama himself does not believe it is. For if he did, he CLEARLY would never have said this issue should be “left up to the states decide,” a position which espouses a policy whereby civil rights would be available in SOME states, but not in others. I mean, come on; he would never espouse such state-by-state discrimination… would he??
If gays are right, and this is a civil rights issue, then they are completely missing the boat and taking their aggressions out on the wrong people (voters). They should be storming WASHINGTON *and* DEMANDING Obama recognize this as a civil rights issue.